racism, why not?

  • 25 augustus 2018
  • 30 reacties
  • 2101 x bekeken

Dear Customer Service, I'm very hungry with your service, today I wait to receive my order for a sim-card and a phone but the courier has refuse to consign me the package (order TNLW1000357537) because I have an Italian id-card, that is the same that I have used on my others phone orders (TNLW4650309 and 1-11395749154), I live in Netherlands now from 3 years and is early to request the dutch citizen status, and unfortunately I have big vision issue, so, I'm unable to get a dutch driver license, I had to be discriminated for this? I'm going to end all contracts with your company and report this to Consumentenbond and in addition I'm one of the administrators of the biggest Italians in Netherlands group (more then 23000 members) and I'm going to advise all my members to stay away from your company, also and only for a pre-paid card. I like to talk with one of your manager about this. Regards.

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30 reacties

Reputatie 7
Badge +2
The online and phone order systems cannot handle IDs from other countries nor can you order with a resident permit. It's a system limitation that's stated during the ordering process, if you select other nationality the system redirect you to a Tele2 store, you can also buy a phone with subscription from any reseller online or on physical shops.
Reputatie 5
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Its kinda harsh to immediately pull the victim card here and point towards racism.

Tele2 does not accept foreign legal documents ordering contracts. But through a retailer you can get a contract with a phone.

So instead of ordering a contract online, you have to visit stores that offer Tele2 contracts.
Reputatie 7
Badge +1
I assume it has something to do with the phone. New legal rules have been applied in The Netherlands for loans (payments for your phone are officially a loan now). For reasons of fraud prevention, Tele2 says a Dutch ID is needed to acquire such a loan. Trying a physical store could help you out.

Make sure to fill in your forum profile so a Tele2 moderator can check your order after the weekend.
Reputatie 1
And all this members are not working for tele2. You believe that? :D

Always online, always a answer wit "solutions".
Reputatie 5
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And all this members are not working for tele2. You believe that? :D

Always online, always a answer wit "solutions".



Im not being payed by Tele2. No
In fact, I could use the money so if they would i gladly accept it.
And what do you expect on a forum thats aimed on finding solutions on problems or similar things?
Should we make the problems worse?



But anyway. This is one of the things i would look up if i happen to move to a foreign country.
there's some reply, that I really appreciate, but the point of the question, is another, Tele2 had accepted another 2 phone contract online from me, with the same documents, now, they don't accept it. why? I have always pay my bills on time, I have two contract, now from 1 years and half. I'm not able to take a dutch driver license, otherwise the problem was solved, due a vision limitation, so, this is a discrimination, anyone can take a driver license, only people that have healt problems don't, so, or this is a discrimination for non-dutch people's or is a discrimination about people with handicap, it's your choice, but this is clear.
Reputatie 5
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there's some reply, that I really appreciate, but the point of the question, is another, Tele2 had accepted another 2 phone contract online from me, with the same documents, now, they don't accept it. why? I have always pay my bills on time, I have two contract, now from 1 years and half. I'm not able to take a dutch driver license, otherwise the problem was solved, due a vision limitation, so, this is a discrimination, anyone can take a driver license, only people that have healt problems don't, so, or this is a discrimination for non-dutch people's or is a discrimination about people with handicap, it's your choice, but this is clear.

Discrimination: the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

In other words. Its not.
You are obliged to have a legal document that states you're a citizen of the Netherlands.
This is really to prevent fraude. As you might understand, what if i go to Italy right now, get a phone contract. Pay a couple months and go back to the Netherlands. Keeping the phone.
Italy cant legally touch me because im not in Italy and we have different laws. Theres a lot of other parties that have to get involved and the expenses are a ton more than the actual contract worth.

Im not sure when this has changed. Could have been recently. (Will look it up. I can perhaps find that for you Found something similar .)
So consider yourself lucky you could get your previous contracts so easily.

But please. Dont pull the race card if it has nothing to do with race


Edit.
I managed to find this. BUT!!! this is not Tele2 specific.
In other words. There's more providers that handle this rule


Source
Reputatie 7
Badge +2
I seriously don't know how it could happen that you managed to order a Phone online with a Italian document.


Back in 2016 when choosing a non-dutch nationality the website would send you to mobiel.nl or Belsimpel.nl

Right now it just tells you to visit a Tele2 store.

I don't classify it as a discrimination thing, it's a system limitation, you can get a phone with contract with Tele2 just not via their webshop
stop for one second, I totally agree that a company has to be aware from frauds and similar things, but, here the question, I repeat is another, every person, as a migrant or a dutch people, can take a driver license, this is one of possible choice to have a phone by online order, only people's that have long stay here and pass a citizen exam can have the dutch citizen status, that's it's what I want to do in future, but the difference is only that people that are not dutch and can not take a driver license, are excluded to this process, so, what's change on business need or financial security behind have a driver license? Nothing. You can request a salary slip, sure, a rent or property contract, ok, but, for example, a driver license, that is considered a valid document, for some people's is a limit, due health issues. In addition, on my case, I just have two contract with this company for the same product, from long time, so, what is the problem? Sure, this is a choice, that can be legally right, but every choice has is consequences, others company are different on this. Anyway, with my inscription on the forum, I have inserted my client id and my phone number, so, now, it's on tele2 interest contact me.
Reputatie 5
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stop for one second, I totally agree that a company has to be aware from frauds and similar things, but, here the question, I repeat is another, every person, as a migrant or a dutch people, can take a driver license, this is one of possible choice to have a phone by online order, only people's that have long stay here and pass a citizen exam can have the dutch citizen status, that's it's what I want to do in future, but the difference is only that people that are not dutch and can not take a driver license, are excluded to this process, so, what's change on business need or financial security behind have a driver license? Nothing. You can request a salary slip, sure, a rent or property contract, ok, but, for example, a driver license, that is considered a valid document, for some people's is a limit, due health issues. In addition, on my case, I just have two contract with this company for the same product, from long time, so, what is the problem? Sure, this is a choice, that can be legally right, but every choice has is consequences, others company are different on this. Anyway, with my inscription on the forum, I have inserted my client id and my phone number, so, now, it's on tele2 interest contact me.

A drivers license in the Netherlands is a valid ID. It has the same legal power as an ID card or Dutch passport.
People with a drivers license are fortunate, I agree (I dont have a drivers license due physical problems as well so we are on one line on that). But I dont get mad at people who do have their license and are able to do things i cant.
Again. Its a law thing, and not racism.
And again, you are lucky that you have been able to get 2 contracts previously without the "proper" documents. The package service might have become more strict in this.


As mentioned. You can go to any store/service point that offers Tele2 contracts and get everything sorted there. That looks to me like a good option you can do first thing monday if you have the time and possibly walk out of the store with your contract set up, activated sim and your new phone (if its on stock)
stop for one second, I totally agree that a company has to be aware from frauds and similar things, but, here the question, I repeat is another, every person, as a migrant or a dutch people, can take a driver license, this is one of possible choice to have a phone by online order, only people's that have long stay here and pass a citizen exam can have the dutch citizen status, that's it's what I want to do in future, but the difference is only that people that are not dutch and can not take a driver license, are excluded to this process, so, what's change on business need or financial security behind have a driver license? Nothing. You can request a salary slip, sure, a rent or property contract, ok, but, for example, a driver license, that is considered a valid document, for some people's is a limit, due health issues. In addition, on my case, I just have two contract with this company for the same product, from long time, so, what is the problem? Sure, this is a choice, that can be legally right, but every choice has is consequences, others company are different on this. Anyway, with my inscription on the forum, I have inserted my client id and my phone number, so, now, it's on tele2 interest contact me.

A drivers license in the Netherlands is a valid ID. It has the same legal power as an ID card or Dutch passport.
People with a drivers license are fortunate, I agree (I dont have a drivers license due physical problems as well so we are on one line on that). But I dont get mad at people who do have their license and are able to do things i cant.
Again. Its a law thing, and not racism.
And again, you are lucky that you have been able to get 2 contracts previously without the "proper" documents. The package service might have become more strict in this.


As mentioned. You can go to any store/service point that offers Tele2 contracts and get everything sorted there. That looks to me like a good option you can do first thing monday if you have the time and possibly walk out of the store with your contract set up, activated sim and your new phone (if its on stock)


this is your opinion, Nick, anyway, if you can give the opportunity to people on good health status to get a service and and on sick or limited people not, this is a discrimination, a good company have a lot of check to see if a person is a good customer, the first for my (international) experience is if the person is just a good customer or not, this is not the case, the final fact is that if a person is not dutch and is not able to get a license driver (that is a very normal document to get, you can also convert your license from another country in to a dutch license, there's no any luck on it) you are obliged to pay your phone in one solution and not month by month, as for online order, anyway, the Consumentenbond has just reply me and they say that they act with me against this.
Reputatie 5
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Well in that case I'd love to get updated on how it goes.

Keep us posted. I'm curious how this plays out.

Ps.
It's not my opinion. It's a fact.

Edit.
The consumentenbond replying to you at midnight on a Saturday evening. Now that's a service!
Sure, I keep you updated, is a fact, but this doesn't legitimate this, about your comment, it's my fault to don't have saw the mail from my contact from consumentenbond first, he has reply me this afternoon, all the information that I have provided are true, and easily to verify.
Maybe you have some interest on leave comments against my concerns? I ask you this because any good person see a problem, if not a discrimination on what I report here.
Reputatie 7
Badge +2
So from your last reply I saw a different issue, the fact that with certain documents (European passports mostly) you are required to pay a device that costs more than 250€.

So let me separate, because this escalated and went kind of off topic rather quickly....


Issue out your OP, the delivery guy cannot deliver the phone, actually when onderling via Tele2.nl you cannot complete your order if you don't have a Dutch passport, not with a resident permit, not with a European passport, only dutch.

And to kill the driver license thing, if you are Dutch and you have a driving license you can use it as your identification, if you are not Dutch, your dutch driving license doesn't serve as your identification (learned the hard way), in the Netherlands only my passport (Brazilian ) or my dutch resident permit is valid as ID.


Second issue, phone financing, here there are two things at play:

- Tele2 anti fraude protection, now call it discrimination, but those are the facts, in the last providers had lots of losses due criminals buying phones on contracts and never paying it, if they continue allowing it, the good clients paying the bills each month will be the ones having to pay more to cover the costs.

You commenting about your abroad experience, in Germany you cannot even rent a nice house without having any kind of record of good financial behavior at Schufa, even banks might deny a simple bank account for you, so the policies here are much less aggressive.

- The government decided that phone financing is a loan, and should follow all the requirements of a loan, so even dutch people got affected by this, since if your income is too low or your expenses too high, you'd need to pay the phone upfront, what's logic why are we even financing phones tho.


Here's a list of witch providers allow what with a EU passport, I'd really work on that EU/ERR resident permit, it makes things much easier, not talking only about phone contracts.




Second about the Consumentenbond, Nice people, but they have their own interests, like they forward people with airline delay claims to a claim company who takes 20% of your claim for the service.

When Tele2 answers your question, if you are not satisfied, you can file a complaint, a higher step is going to the geschillencommissie https://www.degeschillencommissie.nl/over-ons/commissies/telecommunicatiediensten/ they act like mediators.

Complaints about malpractice in commerce is handled by the ACM https://www.acm.nl/en
Thx Rena, is easy to understand, so, you can immagine, after some time that I'm a tele2 customer and I don't have any good feeling from it, because if you are a good customer, company has to take care of you, and this is not the behaviour of tele2, and, sure, phone is a loan, but, as you explain well, others company have different policy, I don't see why I have to stay with a company that don't care of existing customers and make some choice that, compared with others, are, for me, discriminations. If you want to talk about frauds, I have all the economic requisite requested, and more, all the possible warranties, I missi only a dutch id-card or passport, and this, if you satisfy all others needs, and considered that you can trust me, as trusted customer, I repeat, is a discrimination. About the complaints, I just have my lawyers, Anyway, thank for your explanation Rena.
And, sure, I can advise a lot of people (23000) to choice another provider.
Reputatie 6
Badge +1
Tele2 wil be scared for you if you send 230000 people to another provider. You will make them lose some millions.🤤
Or you go to a tele2 shop. That is the other way.
Reputatie 5
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Good luck @Roberto R.
Reputatie 7
Badge +4
Waarom voeren we deze discussie in het Engels? Als een buitenlander al drie jaar in Nederland woont mag je toch verwachten dat hij zijn best heeft gedaan om te integreren en de Nederlandse taal heeft geleerd? Dat verwachten de italianen andersom al vanaf dag 1 als wij als Nederlanders daar komen wonen. ( Bron: de serie Ololai)
Reputatie 5
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Waarom voeren we deze discussie in het Engels? Als een buitenlander al drie jaar in Nederland woont mag je toch verwachten dat hij zijn best heeft gedaan om te integreren en de Nederlandse taal heeft geleerd? Dat verwachten de italianen al vanaf dag 1 als wij als Nederlanders daar komen wonen. ( Bron: de serie Ololai)

Ik vond het een goede oefening om mijn eigen Engels op pijl te houden.
Maar goed. Meneer heeft zijn zaken al op orden zoals hij aangeeft, ook al is de consumentenbond niet "open" op zaterdag.


Ik ben behoorlijk sceptisch over het verhaal en geloof er ook weinig van. Dus ik ben erg benieuwd hoe dit verder loopt.


Ps.
Voorzichtig. Misschien is het praten van een andere taal ook racistisch
Reputatie 7
Badge +4

Ps.
Voorzichtig. Misschien is het praten van een andere taal ook racistisch


Dan is die serie Ololai ook heel rasistisch. Onze medelanders begrijpen geen pepernoot van die ambtenaren. Ze willen graag meer toeristen/ new business, maar die moeten dan wel EERST Italiaans spreken.
Reputatie 7
Badge +4
Het topic zou eigenlijk moeten zijn: "extortion why not?"
Als deze heer zijn zin niet krijgt gaat ie dreigen met oproepen in social media.... haha.. als een bedrijf iedere keer zou buigen voor dit soort "dreigementen" kun je bezig blijven. Zoals Rena al aangaf, alle providers hebben dergelijke regels i.v.m. de nieuwe wetgeving. Dus zijn er vast andere Roberto's die oproepen om vooral niet naar KPN/Vodafone te gaan omdat ze daar geen lening voor hun nieuwe IphoneX online konden afsluiten....

Reputatie 7
Badge +1
Most providers are worse in accepting clients with foreign ID’s, It’s not racism. Get a passport at the Italian embassy in Amsterdam and you can get a Tele2 subscription, just not a loan for a phone more expensive then EUR 10 p/m.
Waarom voeren we deze discussie in het Engels? Als een buitenlander al drie jaar in Nederland woont mag je toch verwachten dat hij zijn best heeft gedaan om te integreren en de Nederlandse taal heeft geleerd? Dat verwachten de italianen andersom al vanaf dag 1 als wij als Nederlanders daar komen wonen. ( Bron: de serie Ololai)

Maybe is in English because is like a second language, and, also if I speak a good dutch for a person that was here for 3 years now, I'm not yet comfortable to have a complex discussion in writing. Sure there's a lot to say about the fact that big part of Netherlands economy is based on foreign companies where required language is English, so, meantime you learn the dutch language, you can continue speak English, I suppose, in addition, English is considered one of the official language in most of the forums platform on internet, is not my mother tongue as is not your, or you want that a forum like this can be accessible only to dutch speaker? just to understand your point of view...
Het topic zou eigenlijk moeten zijn: "extortion why not?"
Als deze heer zijn zin niet krijgt gaat ie dreigen met oproepen in social media.... haha.. als een bedrijf iedere keer zou buigen voor dit soort "dreigementen" kun je bezig blijven. Zoals Rena al aangaf, alle providers hebben dergelijke regels i.v.m. de nieuwe wetgeving. Dus zijn er vast andere Roberto's die oproepen om vooral niet naar KPN/Vodafone te gaan omdat ze daar geen lening voor hun nieuwe IphoneX online konden afsluiten....



If you don't understand the problem, maybe you are right, I have to write it in dutch, or, better, if you don't like English you can always don't reply on something you are unable to understand.
My concern, is not about the law that can be changed, this is totally agreeable, and I totally respect it, but is about the fact that customer service has accepted my order as usual, with also phone confirmation and only on phone delivery the problem is happened, so, someone has work bad on this process, and, I repeat, is totally on my rights advise peoples that I know to don't deal with this company on this side, others company are more efficient and have made different choices on how to handle new rules and on how take care of customer.
PS: your funny joke about Romans, remember me how the Roman Empire has bring civilisation and culture for more then 400 years, also in this country... remember, auris batava my friend...